OT Japanese WE Replicas...

**Altec Best** · February 28th, 2012, 02:37 PM

Originally Posted by Old Guy

They offer original style, and ones with their improvements/changes.

Didn't see that part.But prices are still the same.

**Geekstar** · February 28th, 2012, 02:39 PM

Suzuki's idea for GIP is to make units that sound like fresh, new Western Electric. I think he is probably correct that old ones are often not working right. He inspected lots of originals and fixes them, so he probably knows what he is trying to say. he complains that if people use broken down WE, it reflects badly on the legendary accomplishments of WECo.

There is a strong "family resemblance" between the originals and the copies but the new ones are smoother--that is what I am calling better. The real 597A is quite subtle but a little bit grainy or spitty. When we switched to the GIP I could no longer pick out the sound of the tweeter. Turning it on just made the 15A sound more colorful, detailed, and wide range. Same with the 555...original was slightly rough in comparison, but you probably wouldn't notice until making the A-B evaluation. The GIP sounded better to me.

GIP has developed techniques for aging paper cones to make them sound very broken in and I watched those young guys massage 18" cones for hours. Before and after comparison of texture and flexure was amazing. But how do you "age" a metal diaphragm and get that 80 year old sound? They have been working on it.

GIP does focus on making their own units based on WE technology with advanced materials. For example they can get 99.8% pure permandur now whereas in the 30s the limit was like 99.2% (making up the numbers but close). This improvement allowed them to squeak a db or two more sensitivity out of the 594A motor, which was at the limit of possibility back in the day.

On the other hand they have had a lot of metallurgy lab work done and other material analysis trying to pin down exactly what the originals used and they try to stick to the original formulas where appropriate, get all the cone, bobbin, and diaphragm weights and thicknesses right, etc.

Below is a pic of the new GIP 8" TA-4189. The original 4189, a projection booth monitor, looks like a plain old Jensen or Rola field coil from an old radio--nothing special. They fixed this one up with a cast iron cover, cast frame, and 555-style binding posts. MUCH nicer than the original. Can't really call it a copy. I think the original was more of an excuse to create this than a model.

The main thing they have working against them is the price structure. If you have excessive cash and you are just interested in sonics, the GIPs are a good pick...but WE collectors want history and romance with their speakers. Museum-grade WE will always go up in value (or so it is presumed) whereas the resale value on GIP is not going to be 100%.

In any case, I respect these guys for their insane dedication to the task. They see it as a tribute to Western Electric.

Me, I'm an ALTEC man from way back...a proud 99%er. I love Western but ALTEC is good enough for me!! Give me a six-pack and a pair of 288s and I'm happy.

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Hey thanks for the tip on the pdf. I am having firefox problems too. The last firefox update is not working right on my laptop at all, misc screw-ups on my desktop too.

Pics:

--GIP 555
--GIP bobbin compared with old recone. The old spider is tyvek or plasticized paper where the original was paper
--GIP TA-4189
--GIP tech Mr. Kawanishi massaging and softening surround on 18" cone to make it "broken-in." This cat is deep into the art of the recone! A hack recone shop can crank out 10 speakers in the time it takes them to do one.

**mah** · February 28th, 2012, 09:22 PM

OT: OG your post above on computer construction reminded me of a space mission cartoon in which an astronaut is asked how he feels about going into space. He replies, "How would you feel sitting on a million parts, each made under a lowest price contract?".

**tomt** · February 29th, 2012, 12:53 AM

looks good from here

1109d1330454430 ot japanese we replicas gip8inch

**Geekstar** · February 29th, 2012, 01:31 AM

Here's a pic of the GIP 4189 cones.

I heard these in a small open back box a few months ago. That version did not have a dustcap.

Very good...although I think the box design could have been better or at least bigger.

They have been working on new cabs and I'll get to hear the new one at the Munich show.

**sanhanul** · March 2nd, 2012, 07:43 AM

You were in Seoul two weeks ago. That is interesting. Next time you come to Korea, Please let me know.

One of my audio friend is also making his own sound system using old Altec or WE, Jensen units.
I visited his work place and tried what he accomplished^^ last sunday. He removed damaged old paper con from 515 and put his own woofer paper con using Korean traditional paper called Hanji. He also made his own networks to make muti way crossover. Those were installed in his own plywood enclosers . WE 12025 horn and 720 driver were matched and EV 350 were added to them. He then put one more super tweeter to make it four way.
The result was quite pleasant. The bass went deeper and became tighter. The response of the woofer became faster. General tone balance was good to my ear.
I didn't believe that any change from the original would bring any better result. Because I believed that the people from WE, Altec etc who were specialized in speaker design and spent so much time and energy to make the one couldn't be beaten up by some kind of tweeks by the usual man like us.
But these days, almost ten years after, I couldn't deny that what he made was good or better than mine. As I am very much inclined to horn speaker system after I got the 604B, I am asking his advice for my system. It never happened before when I couldn't understand what he was trying to do.

**Old Guy** · March 2nd, 2012, 09:01 AM

Originally Posted by mah

OT: OG your post above on computer construction reminded me of a space mission cartoon in which an astronaut is asked how he feels about going into space. He replies, "How would you feel sitting on a million parts, each made under a lowest price contract?".

Where it came from is John Glenn's flight, he was told that just before launch by another astronaut.

**Geekstar** · March 2nd, 2012, 12:52 PM

I couldn't deny that what he made was good or better than mine. As I am very much inclined to horn speaker system after I got the 604B, I am asking his advice for my system. It never happened before when I couldn't understand what he was trying to do.

Hi Sanhanul:

604B can work well but I found 604 to be a tricky speaker to tune for home use.

I think your friend taught you one of the lessons of horn systems: BIGGER IS BETTER!!

2 or 3 way with 12" or 15" woofer might be your next step!!

This is all pro gear, often designed for theaters, and sometimes adjustments must be made for small rooms. WE and Altec engineering is a very good start.

Have fun!

Joe Roberts

**analog addict** · March 2nd, 2012, 02:17 PM

OT - Hi Joe. Dennis Had wanted me to send his regards. He is getting back in the biz in a small way running his own shop once again...

I have been restoring a set of A7's with the goal of letting him play with them and hopefully coming up with a novel crossover design....